F4S: Is it always easy to deal with saved sinners? Nope. : ) Some simply don't see themselves as such. And some lost sinners don't see themselves as sinners either.

Monday, March 3, 2025

Is it always easy to deal with saved sinners? Nope. : ) Some simply don't see themselves as such. And some lost sinners don't see themselves as sinners either.

 "Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all." 1 Thessalonians 5:14 nkjv

Jesus (in Luke 18:9-14) told a parable about a Pharisee and a sinner who was a tax collector:

"Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 'Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." Luke 18:9-14 nkjv

There is a danger in not seeing yourself as one in need. Some of the Pharisees’ self-righteousness had SO blinded them from seeing correctly. Yes, from realizing that they indeed were “sin-sick” and in need of a doctor (Mark 2:17 and Matthew 9:12-13).

My dad enjoyed his birthday yesterday (88), but he also has a sober birthday. Yes, Kim, is a (Christian) saved alcoholic now. On November 21 in 1970 my dad had his last drink with one of his UCLA fraternity brothers, an alumni named Pete Menjou (the son of Adolph, "a famous actor"). My dad was born again in the altar with a bunch of surfers at Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa (the place of the Jesus Revolution movie).

My mom Betty was also an alcoholic, and she had her last drink on November 2 in 1970. They're still together sober and love the Lord now.

My dad always viewed the Christian Church like a very flawed wooden shed way out in a cold snow storm where many procupines kept trying to find safety together. He told me this a couple times.

There is a real danger of not getting into that shed and Christ is the only one that gives each of us entrance. Repentance and faith faith in Jesus, that's what we each need. Get in Christ first, yes get biblically saved and then find and get in a healthy church why she wants you to.. as he will lead you to.

A German philosopher named Arthur Schopenhauer is credited for speaking about this porcupine dilemma, asking: How is it that porcupines are supposed to stay warm through the wintertime?

If they come together into that shed, if they huddle up together, they'll survive. The problem is that their sharp quills keep on poking into each other.

They’re going to cause pain to one another. Is it untenable? So should this mean that because I experience pain at times, I should abandon that group huddling together out of the cold and go out on my own?

Man, if a porcupine chose to do that, he would go out and just freeze to death.

No, it’s necessary for all of them to stay in and together.

Ain't that picture for us saved sinners within the Church as we struggle to get through the winter, so to speak? Sometimes, huddling together with other flawed people.. sometimes being so close to each other with all those quills seems unreasonable. Those things poke and wound us, causing pain, and our own quills are going to cause pain to other people around us. Yet for us, as Christians, we are encouraged to bear with one another's flaws, to encourage one another in spite of them, and to give spiritual warmth and support to one another. We are encouraged to show love, empathy, and understanding to one another.

Some saved sinners and lost sinners bail out because they've been stuck more than once. How could church involvement really be God's will for me? I'm wounded.

I hate those pokey quills around us! Then we realize that our Lord Jesus was willing to come and huddle close with us sinners here in this fallen world.

"..for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23 nkjv

  • Jesus was called a friend of sinners because He really was and is.
  • Jesus closely associated with sinners before they repented, but was never pulled into sinning.
  • Jesus welcomed sinners that others didn't like or welcome, such as tax collectors and even children (sure, they need Him as well).
  • Jesus spoke words of forgiveness to sinners cuz He alone can wash us clean.
  • Jesus broke down the barriers of judgment and prejudice.
  • Jesus' friendship with sinners clearly shows that God the Father's kindness leads lost sinners to repentance.
  • Jesus' friendship with sinners also shows that all flawed people really matter to God the Father, and that everyone is eligible for God's saving grace.
  • Jesus' friendship with sinners shows that Christians should also have God as their best friend and become friends with sinners too (I don't make carnal Christians or lost people my closest friends cuz bad company corrupts good morals and I would be pulled down).
  • Jesus spent time with sinner Zacchaeus, a tax collector who was considered an outcast cuz other sinners hated him.
  • Jesus brought his followers to Samaria, Tyre, and Caesarea Philippi to meet lost sinners who were often hated and marginalized.

God in the Bible makes it clear that all people have sinned but he still loves sinners. Yes, you and I are sinners.

All are born sin-sick and our society is as well, because we imperfect people are a part of it. Where we flawed sinners go problems tend to follow. We were born that way and we each need the ultimate doctor huh. Yes, Jesus can save us. Let's start there with Him.

"..for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." Luke 19:10 nkjv

Sinners in the church are to see themselves as, and confess even, that they are sinners. That takes ditching hubris (pride) and accepting humility.

Saved sinners are to be in a healthy Bible teaching church, growing up and daily depending on the God who can save any sinner. God wants you and me to be spiritually mature and balanced in Christ.

Saved sinners in the church are to love other saved and lost sinners who are valuable.. cuz they know God loves the other saved and lost sinners.

The Bible says, "Imitate God, therefore, in everything you do, because you are his dear children. Live a life filled with love, following the example of Christ. He loved us and offered himself as a sacrifice for us, a pleasing aroma to God." Eph. 5.1-2 nlt

The Church is not some Forbes five-star luxury golf and spa resort for saints, but it's like a hospital for lost and saved sinners. 

"The church is not a place where perfect people gather, but where imperfect people gather to encourage, support, and serve one another as we strive (by the Spirit, not on our own) to become better." ~ Joseph B. Wirthlin

Because there are so many needing an effective hospital today (more so than ever before), the hospital, so to speak really needs to function right and grow bigger to receive more sinners.

The challenge is in dealing with saved sinners and the other kinds too. Yep, with problem people cuz we are all sinners.

“The church is not a gallery for the exhibition of eminent Christians but a school for the education of imperfect ones.” ~ Henry Ward Beecher

Charles Morrison wrote, “The Christian church is a society of sinners.” In fact, he went on to say, “It is the only society in the world where membership is based upon the single qualification that the candidate shall be unworthy of membership.” How true, and actually recognize that!

We all would claim that the Church is far from perfect today. It has been since day one.

Even a spiritually healthy church is not a place for perfect people (there indeed are unhealthy ones to avoid).. but it's indeed God's will for you to be involved with a healthy local church. Why? It’s a hospital for people who know they’re spiritually ill.  

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." Hebrews 10:25

We don’t claim for a moment that any church is perfect.  In fact, we would eagerly claim that all churches are not. The Church needs it's groom, Jesus, moment by moment. I just love Him most, and love His Bride (the Church) as well

"The Church – far from perfect, but ain’t no better place here." ~ Jameskim

“Many Christians find church to be the most difficult aspect of being a Christian.” ~ Eugene Peterson

The church is a gathering of redeemed sinners, yet sinners nonetheless. I love to go fetch lost sinners to bring to church where they can hear the gospel.  

Some religious types (saved and lost) wrongly maintain a better than thou attitude. Christian, you're not better than.. you're simply better off than. 

Though saved by grace, we still wrestle with this corrupt world system here, with real unseen angels (fallen), and with our old unredeemed fleshly nature. Why do that all isolated outside the warm porcupine shed alone? 

Why do that outside any sheepshed where many wolves like to roam on your own? 

In every place where people battle against sin and their fleshly nature, problems tend to follow. Duh! 

That's why we are to daily crucify the fleshly nature (Galatians 5:24).

Church growth or true spiritual growth for individual saved sinners is not independent from the Word. It happens in direct proportion to how well a congregation deals with sin in its midst. The more the church purifies itself, the more powerfully it moves forward in God’s strength.

The early church (in the book of Acts), fresh with the fire of Pentecost so to speak, walked in purity, in power and guess what.. they saw explosive growth. 

Today we have so many Church-growth experts that often (with good intentions perhaps) point us in the wrong direction. 

They love to talk about: Homogeneity with local churches, about cultural demographics too, about entertainment methodology, about savvy marketing strategies, and it's all to build and see churches grow. But the Bible doesn't talk about this stuff.

These experts remind us of young David out running towards a fight with that giant Goliath.

Remember pre-fight how King Saul came along and gave David his own armor? Yes, it really happened. Do you remember David's response to Saul in 1 Samuel 17:39?

The Bible says of David, "Then David fastened his sword over his armor and tried to walk, but he could not, because he was not used to them. And David said to Saul, “I cannot go with these, because I am not used to them.” So David took them off." 1 Samuel 17:39 amp

"David put it on, strapped the sword over it, and took a step or two to see what it was like, for he had never worn such things before. “I can’t go in these,” he protested to Saul. “I’m not used to them.” So David took them off again." 1 Samuel 17:39 nlt

So David simply went out there and took his slingshot. Sure, he was used to it ..and that was the end of Goliath.

Guess what.. the only way the local church is ever going to kill their Goliaths is to do what it’s used to doing that's right.. yes, to do what it’s mandated to, what it's taught and trained to do, and what it's developed in holiness and wise application to do, and there are always going to be the religious Sauls in the wings who want to load up their armor on the little Davids, but we’re much better off with the good weapons we know how to use. Think about the early church.

Holiness wasn’t a strategy; it was their very life in Christ. Today, people talk endlessly about church growth models—marketing techniques, entertainment-driven services, and cultural demographics. But Scripture really does say zip, null, nothing about these. Instead, God’s method for a thriving evangelistic church is simple: remove the barriers of sin and go witness from the heart -- His power will flow freely. Brag on Jesus. Talk about the His bloody cross at Calvary, and the empty tomb. 

Ya gotta be born into the Church. Jesus said you must be born again! Do saved sinners (believers) need to grow spiritually, as well as churches (hospitals for sinners)? Sure! 

Purity In The Church Is Related To Soul-Saving Power There: Each Of Us In The Church Are Called to Holiness!

Sin stifles people. Purity propels people. The greatest hindrance to the church is not external opposition but internal failure. Sin. 

The Apostle Paul understood this well. In his letters, he categorized five types of problem people he had to deal with.. who slow the church’s progress: 

- the wayward

- the worried, 

- the weak, 

- the wearisome, and 

- the wicked. 

Every pastor of every church congregation, no matter how faithful, contains and has had these five groups of sinners. 

And the measure of a church’s strength is how well by Christ's power.. it wins them (to Jesus) and it restores them (in Jesus).

1. The Wayward: Out of Step and Out of Line

Some people are simply disengaged and they go over the line. They refuse to serve, resist leadership, and are never in sync with the body of Christ. They often murmer and complain from the sidelines. They seem to never contribute on any level but always criticizing those who do.. who volunteer. Some are apathetic; others are outright rebellious or lazy. They march to their own beat while the church moves forward.

Paul’s command is clear: admonish them (see Acts 27:9 and 1 Thessalonians 5). Not with some kind of mean harshness, but with loving, firm correction to help them. "Admonish" means to direct someone's attention to something that needs to be changed. Please be willing to let God change you. Daily.  

The goal is not to cast them out, but to bring them back into step, to show them that their waywardness carries consequences. The church must lovingly call them to responsibility, not enable their indifference.

Some believers need to be rebuked

2. The Worried: Fearful and Hesitant

Then there are those who are paralyzed by their fears. Change unsettles them, risk terrifies them, and their favorite phrase is, “But we’ve never done it that way before.” They lack boldness and simple courage, they resist all adventure, and focus on worst-case scenarios.

What does the Bible mean when it tells us to fear not?

Why did Jesus say, “Do not fear; only believe”?

Paul says to encourage them. They don’t really need a tough rebuke; they need reassurance inside. These are the ones we take by the hand and say, “Hey, God is faithful, always has been. Trust Him and walk closely. Follow Jesus.” We don’t dismiss their fears, but we also don’t let fear dictate the direction of the local church. Instead, by God's grace we infuse them with biblical faith by reminding them of God’s flawless track record.

3. The Weak: Spiritually Fragile and Failing

Some believers struggle with persistent and pet sins. They stumble over the same temptations, embarrass themselves, and sometimes even bring shame to the church. They require constant attention, and at times, they chronically drain the energy of those around them. Don't be such a chronic. 

Why do so many people struggle with a lack of faith?

Paul’s instruction to all saved sinners (believers)? Help them. The weak don’t need accusation or condemnation; the devil points the finger and does that. They need gentle discipleship with grace and the Word. They need strong believers to walk alongside of them, providing clear accountability, guidance, and loving patience. The goal isn’t to coddle but to strengthen with the word. A strong church doesn’t discard the weak—it lifts them up.

4. The Wearisome: Slow to Grow cuz They Often Feel Frusterated. They're Hard to Lead Right Cuz They Often Follow Their Feelings

There are those who seem to never progress. No matter how much teaching and encouragement they receive, they remain stagnant. They hear truth but don’t apply it. They get pulled away by distractions and lack the discipline to move forward in their faith.

We walk by faith, not by sight or by feelings. Feeling are fickle and lie. 

What can I do when I don't feel any love for God?

Paul says, be patient. All people need that. Frustration won’t speed up their growth in Christ. Instead, the church must faithfully invest in saved sinners needing patience. Teach, and encourage them, even when progress seems so minimal. Some grow by leaps and bounds; others in inches. But the church must be a safe place where even the slowest learners are nurtured along.

5. The Wicked: Sinning Against the Church

Finally, there are those who seek to bring outright harm—gossips, slanderers, adulterers, strikers, and thieves. These are not just struggling believers; they are wickedly actively working against the unity of the church. Lead as many as possible to Christ. Some might merely be carnal, worldly or religious Christians who need to repent and start acting like Christians. 

"An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not dependent on wine, not violent but gentle, peaceable, and free of the love of money. An overseer must manage his own household well and keep his children under control, with complete dignity." 1 Tim. 3:2

"Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous.." kjv

Paul commands, hold them accountable. Sin in the camp cannot be ignored. The church must confront and, if necessary, discipline those who refuse to repent. The goal is restoration, but holiness must not be sacrificed in the name of tolerance.

Why am I held accountable for my sin when I didn't ask to be born?

Where do I find the age of accountability in the Bible?

What does the Bible say on the importance of accountability?

The Path to Power Is Not For Self

Church health is not about big numbers, wealth, or popularity.. though someone was sure counting in the early church that was growing.. because that was where individual believers (saved sinners) were obeying, winning people, and kept growing spiritually. 

Church health is about eliminating all that weakens it harms the body, and strengthening what glorifies God. Please pray and believe all the Bible. Apply it wisely. 

When the wayward are corrected, the worried are greatly emboldened, the weak are really helped, the wearisome are gently guided, and the wicked are strongly confronted.. the church becomes unstoppable. God delights to use His Church in this watching world. Ask him to use you today! 

A holy church is a powerful church. The world has yet to see what would happen if a congregation fully committed to Jesus Christ in biblical purity. But history gives us a glimpse of this—the early church, burning with holiness (holy fear and holy fire), turned the world upside down. It already was upside down by sin, but the world thought believers where turning it the wrong way. God was using them. Wrongly upside down in reality had become so "normal to them." Yeah, they thought upside down was normal. 

The question is, will we saved sinners also be used of God to turn the upside down world right side up by His power?

Though saved by grace, we still wrestle with our unredeemed fleshly nature, and prayerfully wrestle where flawed people battle sin.. where problems follow. Church growth—true, spiritual growth—happens in direct proportion to how well a congregation confronts and deals with sin in its midst. 

Do you do that in your own life? The more a church purifies itself, the more powerfully it moves forward step by step in God’s strength.

The early church, fresh with the red hot zealous fire of Pentecost, walked in Christ's purity and power -- they saw explosive growth. 

Holiness wasn’t a strategy; it was their very life. Please don't talk endlessly about church growth models—just grow up. 

Remember.. don't talk Madison Avenue marketing techniques or about entertainment-driven services, and or harp on cultural demographics. 

God’s method for a thriving church is simple: live in the Word and remove the barriers of sin, cuz then His power flows freely to sinners (saved and lost sinners).

Sin makes people stupid. It always stifles. Purity propels us to reach out. The greatest hindrance to the church is not external opposition but internal failure. Sin, we must learn to hate it like Jesus hates it, and learn to love righteousness like Jesus does. 

A holy church with a holy staff of leaders leading the people (as they closely follow God's living Word).. is a powerful local church. 

“The world has yet to see what God can do with a man fully consecrated to him. By God’s help, I aim to be that man.” ~ Henry Varley (the British revivalist said that)

The question is, will you and I be that person?

Father, thank you for sending Jesus and thanks for the Church. We need fellowship upward with You and with other growing believers. Help each of us to get involved in a healthy church that graciously teaches the Bible. We want to worship only You ..acceptably. We each desire to do our part in witnessing well to lost sin-sick sinners who need our Physician Jesus! Please use us. Help us saved-sinners live pure and become more like Christ as well. Amen.